From dengel1012 at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 00:27:14 2009 From: dengel1012 at gmail.com (David Engel) Date: Mon Sep 7 00:27:30 2009 Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue References: <674107.24753.qm@web110415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You mean besides the rust/corrosion you saw? That was it. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlon S" To: Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue >I just finished trouble shooting a starting issue with the Supra. > The issue I had with the car was the starter would not crank the engine. > All I heard was a click when the key was turned to START. > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the terminal posts. Followed the > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the starting circuit. Starter relay, > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed owners manual to disengage the > ignition kill if it did engage. > > Went underneath the car and I was going to remove the atarter as the next > step. However, I noticed that the nut for the starter wire was covered > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I decided to use battery cleaner > along with a wire brush on the nut, the starter wire and starter post > because the contacts looked dull. After fastening the starter wire back > on, I was taken by complete surprise because the car started! > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to do a little more work with > starter wire contacts. Went to local hardware store to replace the > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged) and sanded down the > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts with anti-seize and buttoned > everything back up. > > The only question I have for the list is what formed between the contacts? > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it took some effort to loosen it. > > Marlon > '94 Supra TT A340E > '90 Celica GT 5spd > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv From jza80_gte at yahoo.com Mon Sep 7 00:49:40 2009 From: jza80_gte at yahoo.com (Marlon S) Date: Mon Sep 7 00:50:00 2009 Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <380428.25764.qm@web110406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Pretty much. The only things I touched during the trouble shooting were the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on the starter wire nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean. I've experienced a similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica with the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance) builds up between the terminal post the battery wires and the Celica would not start(crank) until the battery posts were cleaned. I'm wondering if over time something just slowly builds up on the starter wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped being a daily driver since 95K miles. Marlon --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel wrote: > From: David Engel > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM > You mean besides the rust/corrosion > you saw?? That was it. > > David > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marlon S" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting issue with > the Supra. > > The issue I had with the car was the starter would not > crank the engine. > > All I heard was a click when the key was turned to > START. > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the terminal > posts. Followed the > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the starting > circuit. Starter relay, > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed owners manual to > disengage the > > ignition kill if it did engage. > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to remove the > atarter as the next > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for the starter > wire was covered > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I decided to > use battery cleaner > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the starter wire > and starter post > > because the contacts looked dull. After fastening the > starter wire back > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because the car > started! > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to do a > little more work with > > starter wire contacts. Went to local hardware store to > replace the > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged) and sanded > down the > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts with > anti-seize and buttoned > > everything back up. > > > > The only question I have for the list is what formed > between the contacts? > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it took some > effort to loosen it. > > > > Marlon > > '94 Supra TT A340E > > '90 Celica GT 5spd > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > From myothersupra at yahoo.com Mon Sep 7 10:35:37 2009 From: myothersupra at yahoo.com (Thomas Bradley) Date: Mon Sep 7 10:36:09 2009 Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue In-Reply-To: <380428.25764.qm@web110406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47280.37161.qm@web56608.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hey Marlon, The?rust was probably the culpret in your case, but the?contacts inside the starter soleniod could also be worn down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it may have shifted that contact's position slightly?and made enough of a connection?in the solenoid?to start the car again. The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of one of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that feeds power to the starter motor when the solenoid's plunger?is powered and engaged by the starter relay. Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly over time the copper is burned away by the current's arc'ing as the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner and thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't pass enough current at random?or in some cases when they're totally eaten away ?it can't make the connection at all?anymore even though the?the solenoid plunger is being properly engaged. ? I've also had an experience?on?my?93TT?Automatic MkIV Supra?where the starter wire?bolt on a cheap set of?lead?aftermarket battery terminals (came?on with the car when I bought it, damit)?had backed out ever so slightly so the fusebox had full power, the electrical system was funrctioning properly,?and the?solenoid engaged properly but the starter didn't operate.? I closed the hood, tried turning the key again,?and the car started once on the first try,?then didn't start the next time I turned the key.? I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k miles on the odometer (fairly?common?MkIII Supra issue at around that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a coulpe of times as an experiment?and finally the car started again.? So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again)?and they were completely snug but the starter wire happened to move beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of force by hand then the car started every time I turned the key after that?so I tightened the bolt on that terminal?and it's been fine since. ? Thomas myothersupra -------------- 98TT 6-Speed MkIV 93TT Auto MkIV 92T Auto MkIII 88 5-Speed MkIII 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type 81 5-Speed MkI 01 E-Shift IS300 01 ZRX-1200R ? --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S wrote: From: Marlon S Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM Pretty much. The only things I touched during the trouble shooting were the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on the starter wire nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean. I've experienced a similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica with the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance) builds up between the terminal post the battery wires and the Celica would not start(crank) until the battery posts were cleaned. I'm wondering if over time something just slowly builds up on the starter wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped being a daily driver since 95K miles. Marlon --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel wrote: > From: David Engel > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM > You mean besides the rust/corrosion > you saw?? That was it. > > David > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marlon S" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting issue with > the Supra. > > The issue I had with the car was the starter would not > crank the engine. > > All I heard was a click when the key was turned to > START. > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the terminal > posts. Followed the > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the starting > circuit. Starter relay, > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed owners manual to > disengage the > > ignition kill if it did engage. > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to remove the > atarter as the next > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for the starter > wire was covered > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I decided to > use battery cleaner > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the starter wire > and starter post > > because the contacts looked dull. After fastening the > starter wire back > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because the car > started! > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to do a > little more work with > > starter wire contacts. Went to local hardware store to > replace the > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged) and sanded > down the > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts with > anti-seize and buttoned > > everything back up. > > > > The only question I have for the list is what formed > between the contacts? > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it took some > effort to loosen it. > > > > Marlon > > '94 Supra TT A340E > > '90 Celica GT 5spd > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Mkiv mailing list Mkiv@mkiv.com http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv From jza80_gte at yahoo.com Mon Sep 7 11:26:41 2009 From: jza80_gte at yahoo.com (Marlon S) Date: Mon Sep 7 11:29:10 2009 Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue In-Reply-To: <47280.37161.qm@web56608.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <918895.66244.qm@web110410.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thomas, Great info. Looks like I better be prepared to have the starter rebuilt if the contacts inside the starter soleniods are being worn down. The starter maybe be heading towards this issue from a thread way back in 10/06. http://mkiv.com/pipermail/mkiv/Week-of-Mon-20061002/038753.html Marlon --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Thomas Bradley wrote: > From: Thomas Bradley > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:35 AM > Hey Marlon, > The?rust was probably the culpret in your case, but > the?contacts inside the starter soleniod could also be worn > down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it may > have shifted that contact's position slightly?and made > enough of a connection?in the solenoid?to start the car > again. > The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of one > of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that feeds > power to the starter motor when the solenoid's plunger?is > powered and engaged by the starter relay. > Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly over > time the copper is burned away by the current's arc'ing as > the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner and > thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't pass > enough current at random?or in some cases when they're > totally eaten away ?it can't make the connection at > all?anymore even though the?the solenoid plunger is being > properly engaged. > ? > I've also had an experience?on?my?93TT?Automatic MkIV > Supra?where the starter wire?bolt on a cheap set > of?lead?aftermarket battery terminals (came?on with the > car when I bought it, damit)?had backed out ever so > slightly so the fusebox had full power, the electrical > system was funrctioning properly,?and the?solenoid engaged > properly but the starter didn't operate.? I closed the > hood, tried turning the key again,?and the car started once > on the first try,?then didn't start the next time I turned > the key.? I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k miles on > the odometer (fairly?common?MkIII Supra issue at around > that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a coulpe of > times as an experiment?and finally the car started again.? > So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again)?and they > were completely snug but the starter wire happened to move > beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of force > by hand then the car started every time > I turned the key after that?so I tightened the bolt on > that terminal?and it's been fine since. > > ? > Thomas > myothersupra > -------------- > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > 93TT Auto MkIV > 92T Auto MkIII > 88 5-Speed MkIII > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > 81 5-Speed MkI > 01 E-Shift IS300 > 01 ZRX-1200R > ? > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S > wrote: > > > From: Marlon S > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM > > > Pretty much. The only things I touched during the trouble > shooting were > the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on the > starter wire > nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean. I've > experienced a > similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica with > the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance) builds > up between the terminal > post the battery wires and the Celica would not > start(crank) until the > battery posts were cleaned. > > I'm wondering if over time something just slowly builds up > on the starter > wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped being a > daily driver > since 95K miles. > > Marlon > > > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel > wrote: > > > From: David Engel > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM > > You mean besides the rust/corrosion > > you saw?? That was it. > > > > David > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marlon S" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM > > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > > > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting issue > with > > the Supra. > > > The issue I had with the car was the starter > would not > > crank the engine. > > > All I heard was a click when the key was turned > to > > START. > > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the > terminal > > posts. Followed the > > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the starting > > circuit. Starter relay, > > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed owners > manual to > > disengage the > > > ignition kill if it did engage. > > > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to remove > the > > atarter as the next > > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for the > starter > > wire was covered > > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I > decided to > > use battery cleaner > > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the starter > wire > > and starter post > > > because the contacts looked dull. After fastening > the > > starter wire back > > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because the > car > > started! > > > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to do a > > little more work with > > > starter wire contacts. Went to local hardware > store to > > replace the > > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged) and > sanded > > down the > > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts with > > anti-seize and buttoned > > > everything back up. > > > > > > The only question I have for the list is what > formed > > between the contacts? > > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it took > some > > effort to loosen it. > > > > > > Marlon > > > '94 Supra TT A340E > > > '90 Celica GT 5spd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mkiv mailing list > > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > ? ? ? > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > From myothersupra at yahoo.com Tue Sep 8 18:02:47 2009 From: myothersupra at yahoo.com (Thomas Bradley) Date: Tue Sep 8 18:03:36 2009 Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue In-Reply-To: <918895.66244.qm@web110410.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <833639.94450.qm@web56605.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hey dude, Just a thought... After you disconnect that starter power wire, if you can also remove the 2 bolts that hold the starter on the car yourself then?you should also be able to replace the solenoid contacts just as easily?rather than having it done by someone else.? ? Thomas myothersupra -------------- 98TT 6-Speed MkIV 93TT Auto MkIV 92T Auto MkIII 88 5-Speed MkIII 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type 81 5-Speed MkI 01 ZRX-1200R --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S wrote: From: Marlon S Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:26 AM Thomas, Great info. Looks like I better be prepared to have the starter rebuilt if the contacts inside the starter soleniods are being worn down. The starter maybe be heading towards this issue from a thread way back in 10/06. http://mkiv.com/pipermail/mkiv/Week-of-Mon-20061002/038753.html Marlon --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Thomas Bradley wrote: > From: Thomas Bradley > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:35 AM > Hey Marlon, > The?rust was probably the culpret in your case, but > the?contacts inside the starter soleniod could also be worn > down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it may > have shifted that contact's position slightly?and made > enough of a connection?in the solenoid?to start the car > again. > The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of one > of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that feeds > power to the starter motor when the solenoid's plunger?is > powered and engaged by the starter relay. > Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly over > time the copper is burned away by the current's arc'ing as > the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner and > thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't pass > enough current at random?or in some cases when they're > totally eaten away ?it can't make the connection at > all?anymore even though the?the solenoid plunger is being > properly engaged. > ? > I've also had an experience?on?my?93TT?Automatic MkIV > Supra?where the starter wire?bolt on a cheap set > of?lead?aftermarket battery terminals (came?on with the > car when I bought it, damit)?had backed out ever so > slightly so the fusebox had full power, the electrical > system was funrctioning properly,?and the?solenoid engaged > properly but the starter didn't operate.? I closed the > hood, tried turning the key again,?and the car started once > on the first try,?then didn't start the next time I turned > the key.? I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k miles on > the odometer (fairly?common?MkIII Supra issue at around > that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a coulpe of > times as an experiment?and finally the car started again.? > So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again)?and they > were completely snug but the starter wire happened to move > beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of force > by hand then the car started every time >? I turned the key after that?so I tightened the bolt on > that terminal?and it's been fine since. > > ? > Thomas > myothersupra > -------------- > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > 93TT Auto MkIV > 92T Auto MkIII > 88 5-Speed MkIII > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > 81 5-Speed MkI > 01 E-Shift IS300 > 01 ZRX-1200R > ? > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S > wrote: > > > From: Marlon S > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM > > > Pretty much. The only things I touched during the trouble > shooting were > the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on the > starter wire > nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean. I've > experienced a > similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica with > the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance) builds > up between the terminal > post the battery wires and the Celica would not > start(crank) until the > battery posts were cleaned. > > I'm wondering if over time something just slowly builds up > on the starter > wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped being a > daily driver > since 95K miles. > > Marlon > > > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel > wrote: > > > From: David Engel > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM > > You mean besides the rust/corrosion > > you saw?? That was it. > > > > David > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marlon S" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM > > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > > > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting issue > with > > the Supra. > > > The issue I had with the car was the starter > would not > > crank the engine. > > > All I heard was a click when the key was turned > to > > START. > > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the > terminal > > posts. Followed the > > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the starting > > circuit. Starter relay, > > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed owners > manual to > > disengage the > > > ignition kill if it did engage. > > > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to remove > the > > atarter as the next > > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for the > starter > > wire was covered > > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I > decided to > > use battery cleaner > > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the starter > wire > > and starter post > > > because the contacts looked dull. After fastening > the > > starter wire back > > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because the > car > > started! > > > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to do a > > little more work with > > > starter wire contacts. Went to local hardware > store to > > replace the > > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged) and > sanded > > down the > > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts with > > anti-seize and buttoned > > > everything back up. > > > > > > The only question I have for the list is what > formed > > between the contacts? > > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it took > some > > effort to loosen it. > > > > > > Marlon > > > '94 Supra TT A340E > > > '90 Celica GT 5spd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mkiv mailing list > > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > ? ? ? > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Mkiv mailing list Mkiv@mkiv.com http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv From phpvet at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 15:42:33 2009 From: phpvet at gmail.com (Paul Piccot) Date: Wed Sep 9 15:42:48 2009 Subject: [mkiv] (no subject) Message-ID: <2c4f5cde0909091342o3302c761kdd981ed5dbce2e29@mail.gmail.com> I have told you two times to *UN*-subscribed me from any further "mailings". From dengel1012 at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 16:01:01 2009 From: dengel1012 at gmail.com (David Engel) Date: Wed Sep 9 16:01:13 2009 Subject: [mkiv] (no subject) References: <2c4f5cde0909091342o3302c761kdd981ed5dbce2e29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C0852FD36BA4B8586FBD3F76146AB4F@noetix.local> Good riddance. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Piccot" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: [mkiv] (no subject) >I have told you two times to *UN*-subscribed me from any further > "mailings". > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv From bryant at cablelynx.com Wed Sep 9 22:28:21 2009 From: bryant at cablelynx.com (Larry M. Bryant) Date: Wed Sep 9 22:28:53 2009 Subject: [mkiv] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <2c4f5cde0909091342o3302c761kdd981ed5dbce2e29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a301ca31c6$bfd6c710$a972ffce@SupraComputer> If you tried the link at the bottom of every email to this list, including below, you could have unsubscribed. Well, at least most of us would be able to. Sorry to the list for the rant. Larry -----Original Message----- From: mkiv-bounces@mkiv.com [mailto:mkiv-bounces@mkiv.com] On Behalf Of Paul Piccot Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 3:43 PM To: Mkiv@mkiv.com Subject: [mkiv] (no subject) I have told you two times to *UN*-subscribed me from any further "mailings". _______________________________________________ Mkiv mailing list Mkiv@mkiv.com http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv From jza80_gte at yahoo.com Thu Sep 10 19:46:52 2009 From: jza80_gte at yahoo.com (Marlon S) Date: Thu Sep 10 19:47:17 2009 Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue In-Reply-To: <833639.94450.qm@web56605.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <623693.91597.qm@web110414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thanks. I'll check and see if Toyco sells the solenoid contacts separately. Marlon '94 Supra TT A340E '90 Celica GT 5spd --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Thomas Bradley wrote: > From: Thomas Bradley > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:02 PM > Hey dude, > Just a thought... > After you disconnect that starter power wire, if you can > also remove the 2 bolts that hold the starter on the car > yourself then?you should also be able to replace the > solenoid contacts just as easily?rather than having it done > by someone else.? > ? > > Thomas > myothersupra > -------------- > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > 93TT Auto MkIV > 92T Auto MkIII > 88 5-Speed MkIII > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > 81 5-Speed MkI > 01 ZRX-1200R > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S > wrote: > > > From: Marlon S > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:26 AM > > > Thomas, > > Great info. Looks like I better be prepared to > have the starter rebuilt if the contacts inside > the starter soleniods are being worn down. > > The starter maybe be heading towards this issue > from a thread way back in 10/06. > http://mkiv.com/pipermail/mkiv/Week-of-Mon-20061002/038753.html > > Marlon > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Thomas Bradley > wrote: > > > From: Thomas Bradley > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Hey Marlon, > > The?rust was probably the culpret in your case, but > > the?contacts inside the starter soleniod could also > be worn > > down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it > may > > have shifted that contact's position slightly?and > made > > enough of a connection?in the solenoid?to start the > car > > again. > > The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of > one > > of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that > feeds > > power to the starter motor when the solenoid's > plunger?is > > powered and engaged by the starter relay. > > Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly > over > > time the copper is burned away by the current's > arc'ing as > > the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner > and > > thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't > pass > > enough current at random?or in some cases when > they're > > totally eaten away ?it can't make the connection at > > all?anymore even though the?the solenoid plunger is > being > > properly engaged. > > ? > > I've also had an experience?on?my?93TT?Automatic > MkIV > > Supra?where the starter wire?bolt on a cheap set > > of?lead?aftermarket battery terminals (came?on with > the > > car when I bought it, damit)?had backed out ever so > > slightly so the fusebox had full power, the > electrical > > system was funrctioning properly,?and the?solenoid > engaged > > properly but the starter didn't operate.? I closed > the > > hood, tried turning the key again,?and the car > started once > > on the first try,?then didn't start the next time I > turned > > the key.? I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k > miles on > > the odometer (fairly?common?MkIII Supra issue at > around > > that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a > coulpe of > > times as an experiment?and finally the car started > again.? > > So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again)?and > they > > were completely snug but the starter wire happened to > move > > beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of > force > > by hand then the car started every time > >? I turned the key after that?so I tightened the bolt > on > > that terminal?and it's been fine since. > > > > ? > > Thomas > > myothersupra > > -------------- > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > > 93TT Auto MkIV > > 92T Auto MkIII > > 88 5-Speed MkIII > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > > 81 5-Speed MkI > > 01 E-Shift IS300 > > 01 ZRX-1200R > > ? > > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Marlon S > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM > > > > > > Pretty much. The only things I touched during the > trouble > > shooting were > > the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on > the > > starter wire > > nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean. > I've > > experienced a > > similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica > with > > the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance) > builds > > up between the terminal > > post the battery wires and the Celica would not > > start(crank) until the > > battery posts were cleaned. > > > > I'm wondering if over time something just slowly > builds up > > on the starter > > wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped > being a > > daily driver > > since 95K miles. > > > > Marlon > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel > > wrote: > > > > > From: David Engel > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting > issue > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM > > > You mean besides the rust/corrosion > > > you saw?? That was it. > > > > > > David > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Marlon S" > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM > > > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > > > > > > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting > issue > > with > > > the Supra. > > > > The issue I had with the car was the > starter > > would not > > > crank the engine. > > > > All I heard was a click when the key was > turned > > to > > > START. > > > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the > > terminal > > > posts. Followed the > > > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the > starting > > > circuit. Starter relay, > > > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed > owners > > manual to > > > disengage the > > > > ignition kill if it did engage. > > > > > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to > remove > > the > > > atarter as the next > > > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for > the > > starter > > > wire was covered > > > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I > > decided to > > > use battery cleaner > > > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the > starter > > wire > > > and starter post > > > > because the contacts looked dull. After > fastening > > the > > > starter wire back > > > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because > the > > car > > > started! > > > > > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to > do a > > > little more work with > > > > starter wire contacts. Went to local > hardware > > store to > > > replace the > > > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged) > and > > sanded > > > down the > > > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts > with > > > anti-seize and buttoned > > > > everything back up. > > > > > > > > The only question I have for the list is > what > > formed > > > between the contacts? > > > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it > took > > some > > > effort to loosen it. > > > > > > > > Marlon > > > > '94 Supra TT A340E > > > > '90 Celica GT 5spd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mkiv mailing list > > > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mkiv mailing list > > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > ? ? ? > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > From myothersupra at yahoo.com Fri Sep 11 00:54:51 2009 From: myothersupra at yahoo.com (Thomas Bradley) Date: Fri Sep 11 00:55:22 2009 Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue In-Reply-To: <623693.91597.qm@web110414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <199268.39348.qm@web56607.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hey dude, Something you should know... Some dealers say yes and sell just the two contacts separately from the starter?(with hardware iirc)?for really cheap (like $15-$25ish for both), but some dealers totally?insist that?they're not available separately and will try to make you buy the whole starter which besides being totally unnecessary is obviously a LOT more expensive.? If you can't find them at your local Toyota dealers' parts department and/or they want far too much for them, then just call Jeff Watson?at Champion Toyota or Curt Aigner?at Elmhurst Toyota and they'll get you what you need at a fair price. ? I've purchased and installed the starter contacts?for my?87 MkIII Supra?and several friends' MkIII starters over the past 10 years, I've also replaced them in a couple of friends' higher mileage MkIV's since 2004, and?I just bought a set from Jeff at Champion Toyota?back in March of this year for my 93TT?so I know they can still be had separately?from some Toyota dealers. Also, unless your TT is a conversion, it's the E340i not the A340E?which the MkIII automatic Supras and I think?certain years?of the automatic MkII's also?have.? There are more control/shifting solenoids and more "intelligent" electronics in the MkIV automatic than the A340E has and although they're probably very similar they're certainly not readily interchangeable under normal circumstances and I actually prefer the behavior of the A340E better, stock for stock...? Although a bit more sloppy,?the A340E?was far more predictable and much easier to manipulate with different gas pedal movements, especially when going from cruising to WOT,?and it doesn't have or need the "kick down switch" under the gas pedal like the MkIV's?E340i has, plus I?really liked?the MkII/III's Norm/Pwr mode switch instead of letting the MkIV's?"intelligent" tranny computer try to guess what I really want all the time... But anyway...? :) ? Later dude, ? ? Thomas myothersupra -------------- 98TT 6-Speed MkIV 93TT Auto MkIV 92T Auto MkIII 88 5-Speed MkIII 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type 81 5-Speed MkI 01 ZRX-1200R --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Marlon S wrote: From: Marlon S Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 7:46 PM Thanks. I'll check and see if Toyco sells the solenoid contacts separately. Marlon '94 Supra TT A340E '90 Celica GT 5spd --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Thomas Bradley wrote: > From: Thomas Bradley > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:02 PM > Hey dude, > Just a thought... > After you disconnect that starter power wire, if you can > also remove the 2 bolts that hold the starter on the car > yourself then?you should also be able to replace the > solenoid contacts just as easily?rather than having it done > by someone else.? > ? > > Thomas > myothersupra > -------------- > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > 93TT Auto MkIV > 92T Auto MkIII > 88 5-Speed MkIII > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > 81 5-Speed MkI > 01 ZRX-1200R > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S > wrote: > > > From: Marlon S > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:26 AM > > > Thomas, > > Great info. Looks like I better be prepared to > have the starter rebuilt if the contacts inside > the starter soleniods are being worn down. > > The starter maybe be heading towards this issue > from a thread way back in 10/06. > http://mkiv.com/pipermail/mkiv/Week-of-Mon-20061002/038753.html > > Marlon > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Thomas Bradley > wrote: > > > From: Thomas Bradley > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Hey Marlon, > > The?rust was probably the culpret in your case, but > > the?contacts inside the starter soleniod could also > be worn > > down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it > may > > have shifted that contact's position slightly?and > made > > enough of a connection?in the solenoid?to start the > car > > again. > > The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of > one > > of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that > feeds > > power to the starter motor when the solenoid's > plunger?is > > powered and engaged by the starter relay. > > Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly > over > > time the copper is burned away by the current's > arc'ing as > > the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner > and > > thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't > pass > > enough current at random?or in some cases when > they're > > totally eaten away ?it can't make the connection at > > all?anymore even though the?the solenoid plunger is > being > > properly engaged. > > ? > > I've also had an experience?on?my?93TT?Automatic > MkIV > > Supra?where the starter wire?bolt on a cheap set > > of?lead?aftermarket battery terminals (came?on with > the > > car when I bought it, damit)?had backed out ever so > > slightly so the fusebox had full power, the > electrical > > system was funrctioning properly,?and the?solenoid > engaged > > properly but the starter didn't operate.? I closed > the > > hood, tried turning the key again,?and the car > started once > > on the first try,?then didn't start the next time I > turned > > the key.? I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k > miles on > > the odometer (fairly?common?MkIII Supra issue at > around > > that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a > coulpe of > > times as an experiment?and finally the car started > again.? > > So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again)?and > they > > were completely snug but the starter wire happened to > move > > beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of > force > > by hand then the car started every time > >? I turned the key after that?so I tightened the bolt > on > > that terminal?and it's been fine since. > > > > ? > > Thomas > > myothersupra > > -------------- > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > > 93TT Auto MkIV > > 92T Auto MkIII > > 88 5-Speed MkIII > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > > 81 5-Speed MkI > > 01 E-Shift IS300 > > 01 ZRX-1200R > > ? > > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Marlon S > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM > > > > > > Pretty much. The only things I touched during the > trouble > > shooting were > > the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on > the > > starter wire > > nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean. > I've > > experienced a > > similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica > with > > the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance) > builds > > up between the terminal > > post the battery wires and the Celica would not > > start(crank) until the > > battery posts were cleaned. > > > > I'm wondering if over time something just slowly > builds up > > on the starter > > wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped > being a > > daily driver > > since 95K miles. > > > > Marlon > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel > > wrote: > > > > > From: David Engel > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting > issue > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM > > > You mean besides the rust/corrosion > > > you saw?? That was it. > > > > > > David > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Marlon S" > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM > > > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > > > > > > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting > issue > > with > > > the Supra. > > > > The issue I had with the car was the > starter > > would not > > > crank the engine. > > > > All I heard was a click when the key was > turned > > to > > > START. > > > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the > > terminal > > > posts. Followed the > > > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the > starting > > > circuit. Starter relay, > > > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed > owners > > manual to > > > disengage the > > > > ignition kill if it did engage. > > > > > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to > remove > > the > > > atarter as the next > > > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for > the > > starter > > > wire was covered > > > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I > > decided to > > > use battery cleaner > > > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the > starter > > wire > > > and starter post > > > > because the contacts looked dull. After > fastening > > the > > > starter wire back > > > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because > the > > car > > > started! > > > > > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to > do a > > > little more work with > > > > starter wire contacts. Went to local > hardware > > store to > > > replace the > > > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged) > and > > sanded > > > down the > > > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts > with > > > anti-seize and buttoned > > > > everything back up. > > > > > > > > The only question I have for the list is > what > > formed > > > between the contacts? > > > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it > took > > some > > > effort to loosen it. > > > > > > > > Marlon > > > > '94 Supra TT A340E > > > > '90 Celica GT 5spd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mkiv mailing list > > > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mkiv mailing list > > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > ? ? ? > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Mkiv mailing list Mkiv@mkiv.com http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv From inov8tn at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 02:19:36 2009 From: inov8tn at gmail.com (Bill Lawry) Date: Fri Sep 11 02:19:53 2009 Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue In-Reply-To: <199268.39348.qm@web56607.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <623693.91597.qm@web110414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <199268.39348.qm@web56607.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <715b3dd70909110019w6688c791q6534a77994580f64@mail.gmail.com> I had a III before the IV and I agree generally that the ergonomics of the III are better than the IV - noise level, seating, A/C, controls positioning,... but for handling and acceleration On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:54 AM, Thomas Bradley wrote: > Hey dude, > Something you should know... > Some dealers say yes and sell just the two contacts separately from the > starter (with hardware iirc) for really cheap (like $15-$25ish for both), > but some dealers totally insist that they're not available separately and > will try to make you buy the whole starter which besides being totally > unnecessary is obviously a LOT more expensive. > If you can't find them at your local Toyota dealers' parts department > and/or they want far too much for them, then just call Jeff Watson at > Champion Toyota or Curt Aigner at Elmhurst Toyota and they'll get you what > you need at a fair price. > > I've purchased and installed the starter contacts for my 87 MkIII Supra and > several friends' MkIII starters over the past 10 years, I've also replaced > them in a couple of friends' higher mileage MkIV's since 2004, and I just > bought a set from Jeff at Champion Toyota back in March of this year for my > 93TT so I know they can still be had separately from some Toyota dealers. > > Also, unless your TT is a conversion, it's the E340i not the A340E which > the MkIII automatic Supras and I think certain years of the automatic MkII's > also have. > There are more control/shifting solenoids and more "intelligent" > electronics in the MkIV automatic than the A340E has and although they're > probably very similar they're certainly not readily interchangeable under > normal circumstances and I actually prefer the behavior of the A340E better, > stock for stock... Although a bit more sloppy, the A340E was far more > predictable and much easier to manipulate with different gas pedal > movements, especially when going from cruising to WOT, and it doesn't have > or need the "kick down switch" under the gas pedal like the MkIV's E340i > has, plus I really liked the MkII/III's Norm/Pwr mode switch instead of > letting the MkIV's "intelligent" tranny computer try to guess what I really > want all the time... > > But anyway... :) > > Later dude, > > > Thomas > myothersupra > -------------- > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > 93TT Auto MkIV > 92T Auto MkIII > 88 5-Speed MkIII > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > 81 5-Speed MkI > 01 ZRX-1200R > > --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Marlon S wrote: > > > From: Marlon S > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 7:46 PM > > > Thanks. I'll check and see if Toyco > sells the solenoid contacts separately. > > Marlon > '94 Supra TT A340E > '90 Celica GT 5spd > > > --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Thomas Bradley wrote: > > > From: Thomas Bradley > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:02 PM > > Hey dude, > > Just a thought... > > After you disconnect that starter power wire, if you can > > also remove the 2 bolts that hold the starter on the car > > yourself then you should also be able to replace the > > solenoid contacts just as easily rather than having it done > > by someone else. > > > > > > Thomas > > myothersupra > > -------------- > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > > 93TT Auto MkIV > > 92T Auto MkIII > > 88 5-Speed MkIII > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > > 81 5-Speed MkI > > 01 ZRX-1200R > > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Marlon S > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:26 AM > > > > > > Thomas, > > > > Great info. Looks like I better be prepared to > > have the starter rebuilt if the contacts inside > > the starter soleniods are being worn down. > > > > The starter maybe be heading towards this issue > > from a thread way back in 10/06. > > http://mkiv.com/pipermail/mkiv/Week-of-Mon-20061002/038753.html > > > > Marlon > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Thomas Bradley > > wrote: > > > > > From: Thomas Bradley > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:35 AM > > > Hey Marlon, > > > The rust was probably the culpret in your case, but > > > the contacts inside the starter soleniod could also > > be worn > > > down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it > > may > > > have shifted that contact's position slightly and > > made > > > enough of a connection in the solenoid to start the > > car > > > again. > > > The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of > > one > > > of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that > > feeds > > > power to the starter motor when the solenoid's > > plunger is > > > powered and engaged by the starter relay. > > > Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly > > over > > > time the copper is burned away by the current's > > arc'ing as > > > the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner > > and > > > thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't > > pass > > > enough current at random or in some cases when > > they're > > > totally eaten away it can't make the connection at > > > all anymore even though the the solenoid plunger is > > being > > > properly engaged. > > > > > > I've also had an experience on my 93TT Automatic > > MkIV > > > Supra where the starter wire bolt on a cheap set > > > of lead aftermarket battery terminals (came on with > > the > > > car when I bought it, damit) had backed out ever so > > > slightly so the fusebox had full power, the > > electrical > > > system was funrctioning properly, and the solenoid > > engaged > > > properly but the starter didn't operate. I closed > > the > > > hood, tried turning the key again, and the car > > started once > > > on the first try, then didn't start the next time I > > turned > > > the key. I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k > > miles on > > > the odometer (fairly common MkIII Supra issue at > > around > > > that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a > > coulpe of > > > times as an experiment and finally the car started > > again. > > > So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again) and > > they > > > were completely snug but the starter wire happened to > > move > > > beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of > > force > > > by hand then the car started every time > > > I turned the key after that so I tightened the bolt > > on > > > that terminal and it's been fine since. > > > > > > > > > Thomas > > > myothersupra > > > -------------- > > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > > > 93TT Auto MkIV > > > 92T Auto MkIII > > > 88 5-Speed MkIII > > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > > > 81 5-Speed MkI > > > 01 E-Shift IS300 > > > 01 ZRX-1200R > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Marlon S > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM > > > > > > > > > Pretty much. The only things I touched during the > > trouble > > > shooting were > > > the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on > > the > > > starter wire > > > nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean. > > I've > > > experienced a > > > similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica > > with > > > the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance) > > builds > > > up between the terminal > > > post the battery wires and the Celica would not > > > start(crank) until the > > > battery posts were cleaned. > > > > > > I'm wondering if over time something just slowly > > builds up > > > on the starter > > > wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped > > being a > > > daily driver > > > since 95K miles. > > > > > > Marlon > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: David Engel > > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting > > issue > > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM > > > > You mean besides the rust/corrosion > > > > you saw? That was it. > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Marlon S" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM > > > > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue > > > > > > > > > > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting > > issue > > > with > > > > the Supra. > > > > > The issue I had with the car was the > > starter > > > would not > > > > crank the engine. > > > > > All I heard was a click when the key was > > turned > > > to > > > > START. > > > > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the > > > terminal > > > > posts. Followed the > > > > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the > > starting > > > > circuit. Starter relay, > > > > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed > > owners > > > manual to > > > > disengage the > > > > > ignition kill if it did engage. > > > > > > > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to > > remove > > > the > > > > atarter as the next > > > > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for > > the > > > starter > > > > wire was covered > > > > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I > > > decided to > > > > use battery cleaner > > > > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the > > starter > > > wire > > > > and starter post > > > > > because the contacts looked dull. After > > fastening > > > the > > > > starter wire back > > > > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because > > the > > > car > > > > started! > > > > > > > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to > > do a > > > > little more work with > > > > > starter wire contacts. Went to local > > hardware > > > store to > > > > replace the > > > > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged) > > and > > > sanded > > > > down the > > > > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts > > with > > > > anti-seize and buttoned > > > > > everything back up. > > > > > > > > > > The only question I have for the list is > > what > > > formed > > > > between the contacts? > > > > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it > > took > > > some > > > > effort to loosen it. > > > > > > > > > > Marlon > > > > > '94 Supra TT A340E > > > > > '90 Celica GT 5spd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Mkiv mailing list > > > > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mkiv mailing list > > > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mkiv mailing list > > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mkiv mailing list > > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > From myothersupra at yahoo.com Sat Sep 12 07:42:06 2009 From: myothersupra at yahoo.com (Thomas Bradley) Date: Sat Sep 12 07:42:35 2009 Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth??? In-Reply-To: <199268.39348.qm@web56607.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <361743.65960.qm@web56606.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all, Sorry for the length in advance! ? I could really use some?help from the MkIV tech guru's around here, please.? :) ? I've got an issue that used to be constant when I bought this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot but I can't seem to solve it completely.. ? I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I can't find much info on?code 71 or 89. ? I've done a few things and now it only happens on really hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50 miles at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on, but?it happens without the a/c too?and I don't know what else to do to try and solve it... ? I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!? all three simultaneously every time... Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a week, especially?in mid summer. ? Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to make any difference. ? I'll be driving along?for a while then all of a sudden Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing, followed by C.E.L. all within about a second.? Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or parking the car for a while?doesn't make any difference.? They come back on with the key?and stick around a while. If I keep driving for a while longer they will eventually all go out one by one within a second of each other again and stay gone for a long while.? It's rare to see them come and go twice on the same drive. ? ? I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them temporarily but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not?if they were active when the fuse was removed. ? In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot but didn't solve it... This?trio of codes and lights used to happen almost constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor plug?is disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in the harness connector and the vacuum lines were re-routed/capped to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but didn't solve it completely.? We don't have smog or emissions tests here so EGR isn't critical for this car. ? Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot, and may be unrelated.... When I got the car, even when the other lights weren't on?the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and the cruise rarely worked?so I resoldered the odometer circuit boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those two problems went from constant to gone. ? I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't find any info on it other than "Trac ECU". Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy days...?? :) I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having to look at the trac light all the time?but I can't?seem to figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are different than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just press the trac off button when I want to play... ? iirc: Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal Code 71 EGR Malfunction Code 89 TRAC ECU These are not random old codes from different/old/unrelated issues, they all come on together. It always goes from none stored to all three together every time this happens. ? The cruise still works even?while these codes and lights are actively showing up. ? It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot days and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely to trigger it. ? I don't get what these three things have in common. ? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated... ? Thanks in advance! ? Thomas myothersupra -------------- 98TT 6-Speed MkIV 93TT Auto MkIV 92T Auto MkIII 88 5-Speed MkIII 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type 81 5-Speed MkI 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R From johnacribb at yahoo.com Sun Sep 13 00:57:40 2009 From: johnacribb at yahoo.com (John Cribb) Date: Sun Sep 13 00:58:05 2009 Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth??? Message-ID: <487227.79973.qm@web32203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thomas you might still have a cold solder joint problem in the instrument cluster. If I were you, I would resolder all the joints in the cluster, not just the odo pod. http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/trac_off_mil_odo/index.html Also I'm not clear if the problems are occurring with your '93 A/T or your '98 6spd? My '94 with A/T used to still trip a MIL occasionally due to the EGR, and I never did find that problem. I disconnected the EGR, put the bypass resistor in, etc. but no joy. John '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley wrote: > From: Thomas Bradley > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days...? wth??? > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 7:42 AM > Hi all, > Sorry for the length in advance! > ? > I could really use some?help from the MkIV tech guru's > around here, please.? :) > ? > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I bought > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot but I > can't seem to solve it completely.. > ? > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I can't > find much info on?code 71 or 89. > ? > I've done a few things and now it only happens on really > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50 miles > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on, but?it > happens without the a/c too?and I don't know what else to > do to try and solve it... > ? > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!? all three > simultaneously every time... > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a week, > especially?in mid summer. > ? > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to make > any difference. > ? > I'll be driving along?for a while then all of a sudden > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing, followed by > C.E.L. all within about a second.? > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or > parking the car for a while?doesn't make any difference.? > > They come back on with the key?and stick around a while. > If I keep driving for a while longer they will eventually > all go out one by one within a second of each other again > and stay gone for a long while.? It's rare to see them come > and go twice on the same drive. ? > ? > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them temporarily > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not?if they > were active when the fuse was removed. > ? > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot but > didn't solve it... > This?trio of codes and lights used to happen almost > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor plug?is > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in the > harness connector and the vacuum lines were re-routed/capped > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but didn't > solve it completely.? We don't have smog or emissions tests > here so EGR isn't critical for this car. > ? > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot, and > may be unrelated.... > When I got the car, even when the other lights weren't > on?the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and the > cruise rarely worked?so I resoldered the odometer circuit > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those two > problems went from constant to gone. > ? > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't find any > info on it other than "Trac ECU". > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy days...?? :) > > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having to > look at the trac light all the time?but I can't?seem to > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are different > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just press > the trac off button when I want to play... > ? > iirc: > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal > Code 71 EGR Malfunction > Code 89 TRAC ECU > > These are not random old codes from different/old/unrelated > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from none > stored to all three together every time this happens. > ? > The cruise still works even?while these codes and lights > are actively showing up. > ? > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot days > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely to > trigger it. > ? > I don't get what these three things have in common. > ? > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated... > ? > Thanks in advance! > ? > > Thomas > myothersupra > -------------- > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > 93TT Auto MkIV > 92T Auto MkIII > 88 5-Speed MkIII > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > 81 5-Speed MkI > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > From myothersupra at yahoo.com Sun Sep 13 05:17:50 2009 From: myothersupra at yahoo.com (Thomas Bradley) Date: Sun Sep 13 05:18:14 2009 Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth??? In-Reply-To: <487227.79973.qm@web32203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <988707.37758.qm@web56601.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hey John, Sounds like your 94TT auto had the same issue I've got with this 93TT auto (Code 71) and that you did the same things to try and solve it, which helped some but didn't solve it... ? Anyone have any insight into what we're missing?about this issue? ? Already did that tech tip (both sides) shortly after I bought the car.? I'm?very familiar with it.? It didn't solve the problems, just made them apparent as most of the warning lamps in the left and right warning?pods and instrument cluster itself?didn't work when I bought the car...? no suprise there with 120k miles on a bone stock TT Supra... ? The odo resolder fixed the cruise completely and helped the code 42 go from constant to only showing up?when the other 2 codes show up, 42, 71, 89, all simultaneously. ? w.t.h... ? Thomas ? --- On Sun, 9/13/09, John Cribb wrote: From: John Cribb Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth??? To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 12:57 AM Thomas you might still have a cold solder joint problem in the instrument cluster. If I were you, I would resolder all the joints in the cluster, not just the odo pod. http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/trac_off_mil_odo/index.html Also I'm not clear if the problems are occurring with your '93 A/T or your '98 6spd? My '94 with A/T used to still trip a MIL occasionally due to the EGR, and I never did find that problem. I disconnected the EGR, put the bypass resistor in, etc. but no joy. John '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley wrote: > From: Thomas Bradley > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days...? wth??? > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 7:42 AM > Hi all, > Sorry for the length in advance! > ? > I could really use some?help from the MkIV tech guru's > around here, please.? :) > ? > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I bought > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot but I > can't seem to solve it completely.. > ? > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I can't > find much info on?code 71 or 89. > ? > I've done a few things and now it only happens on really > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50 miles > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on, but?it > happens without the a/c too?and I don't know what else to > do to try and solve it... > ? > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!? all three > simultaneously every time... > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a week, > especially?in mid summer. > ? > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to make > any difference. > ? > I'll be driving along?for a while then all of a sudden > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing, followed by > C.E.L. all within about a second.? > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or > parking the car for a while?doesn't make any difference.? > > They come back on with the key?and stick around a while. > If I keep driving for a while longer they will eventually > all go out one by one within a second of each other again > and stay gone for a long while.? It's rare to see them come > and go twice on the same drive. ? > ? > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them temporarily > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not?if they > were active when the fuse was removed. > ? > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot but > didn't solve it... > This?trio of codes and lights used to happen almost > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor plug?is > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in the > harness connector and the vacuum lines were re-routed/capped > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but didn't > solve it completely.? We don't have smog or emissions tests > here so EGR isn't critical for this car. > ? > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot, and > may be unrelated.... > When I got the car, even when the other lights weren't > on?the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and the > cruise rarely worked?so I resoldered the odometer circuit > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those two > problems went from constant to gone. > ? > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't find any > info on it other than "Trac ECU". > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy days...?? :) > > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having to > look at the trac light all the time?but I can't?seem to > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are different > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just press > the trac off button when I want to play... > ? > iirc: > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal > Code 71 EGR Malfunction > Code 89 TRAC ECU > > These are not random old codes from different/old/unrelated > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from none > stored to all three together every time this happens. > ? > The cruise still works even?while these codes and lights > are actively showing up. > ? > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot days > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely to > trigger it. > ? > I don't get what these three things have in common. > ? > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated... > ? > Thanks in advance! > ? > > Thomas > myothersupra > -------------- > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > 93TT Auto MkIV > 92T Auto MkIII > 88 5-Speed MkIII > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > 81 5-Speed MkI > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > _______________________________________________ Mkiv mailing list Mkiv@mkiv.com http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv From johnacribb at yahoo.com Sun Sep 13 08:43:31 2009 From: johnacribb at yahoo.com (John Cribb) Date: Sun Sep 13 08:43:52 2009 Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth??? In-Reply-To: <988707.37758.qm@web56601.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <957483.43729.qm@web32205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thomas, I didn't have the MIL from the EGR (71) until after I put the EGR bypass plate in, and then it only occurred infrequently, in hot weather, and only when cruising between 30 & 50 MPH. I've disabled the rest of the EGR, put the resistor in, replaced the resistor twice, cut the harness and soldered the resistor in, etc. but no joy. The other problems that you're describing, (TRAC Off, Manu, Cruise) I had when I first purchased my car, but they all were sorted when I resoldered all the points in my instrument cluster. My '94 is now owned & driven by my son, but it's still tripping the 71 MIL occasionally, so I'm still keen to find a solution. John '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Thomas Bradley wrote: > From: Thomas Bradley > Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth??? > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 5:17 AM > Hey John, > Sounds like your 94TT auto had the same issue I've got with > this 93TT auto (Code 71) and that you did the same things to > try and solve it, which helped some but didn't solve it... > ? > Anyone have any insight into what we're missing?about this > issue? > ? > Already did that tech tip (both sides) shortly after I > bought the car.? I'm?very familiar with it.? > It didn't solve the problems, just made them apparent as > most of the warning lamps in the left and right > warning?pods and instrument cluster itself?didn't work > when I bought the car...? no suprise there with 120k miles > on a bone stock TT Supra... > ? > The odo resolder fixed the cruise completely and helped the > code 42 go from constant to only showing up?when the other > 2 codes show up, 42, 71, 89, all simultaneously. > ? > w.t.h... > ? > Thomas > ? > --- On Sun, 9/13/09, John Cribb > wrote: > > From: John Cribb > Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on > hot days... wth??? > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 12:57 AM > > Thomas you might still have a cold solder joint problem in > the instrument cluster. If I were you, I would resolder all > the joints in the cluster, not just the odo pod. http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/trac_off_mil_odo/index.html > > Also I'm not clear if the problems are occurring with your > '93 A/T or your '98 6spd? My '94 with A/T used to still trip > a MIL occasionally due to the EGR, and I never did find that > problem. I disconnected the EGR, put the bypass resistor in, > etc. but no joy. > > John > '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop > > > --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley > wrote: > > > From: Thomas Bradley > > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on > hot days...? wth??? > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 7:42 AM > > Hi all, > > Sorry for the length in advance! > > ? > > I could really use some?help from the MkIV tech > guru's > > around here, please.? :) > > ? > > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I > bought > > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot > but I > > can't seem to solve it completely.. > > ? > > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I > can't > > find much info on?code 71 or 89. > > ? > > I've done a few things and now it only happens on > really > > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50 > miles > > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on, > but?it > > happens without the a/c too?and I don't know what > else to > > do to try and solve it... > > ? > > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!? all > three > > simultaneously every time... > > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a > week, > > especially?in mid summer. > > ? > > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to > make > > any difference. > > ? > > I'll be driving along?for a while then all of a > sudden > > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing, > followed by > > C.E.L. all within about a second.? > > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or > > parking the car for a while?doesn't make any > difference.? > > > > They come back on with the key?and stick around a > while. > > If I keep driving for a while longer they will > eventually > > all go out one by one within a second of each other > again > > and stay gone for a long while.? It's rare to see > them come > > and go twice on the same drive. ? > > ? > > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them > temporarily > > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not?if > they > > were active when the fuse was removed. > > ? > > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot > but > > didn't solve it... > > This?trio of codes and lights used to happen almost > > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor > plug?is > > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in > the > > harness connector and the vacuum lines were > re-routed/capped > > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but > didn't > > solve it completely.? We don't have smog or emissions > tests > > here so EGR isn't critical for this car. > > ? > > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot, > and > > may be unrelated.... > > When I got the car, even when the other lights > weren't > > on?the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and > the > > cruise rarely worked?so I resoldered the odometer > circuit > > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those > two > > problems went from constant to gone. > > ? > > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't > find any > > info on it other than "Trac ECU". > > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy > days...?? :) > > > > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having > to > > look at the trac light all the time?but I can't?seem > to > > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are > different > > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just > press > > the trac off button when I want to play... > > ? > > iirc: > > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal > > Code 71 EGR Malfunction > > Code 89 TRAC ECU > > > > These are not random old codes from > different/old/unrelated > > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from > none > > stored to all three together every time this happens. > > > ? > > The cruise still works even?while these codes and > lights > > are actively showing up. > > ? > > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot > days > > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely > to > > trigger it. > > ? > > I don't get what these three things have in common. > > ? > > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated... > > ? > > Thanks in advance! > > ? > > > > Thomas > > myothersupra > > -------------- > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > > 93TT Auto MkIV > > 92T Auto MkIII > > 88 5-Speed MkIII > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > > 81 5-Speed MkI > > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > From myothersupra at yahoo.com Sun Sep 13 14:53:57 2009 From: myothersupra at yahoo.com (Thomas Bradley) Date: Sun Sep 13 14:54:32 2009 Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth??? In-Reply-To: <957483.43729.qm@web32205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <862727.17314.qm@web56603.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hey John, ? Totally O.T. question... Were you at TX2K9 back in March? ? This car has had issues with the EGR since before I bought it although they're much better now that it doesn't have completely fubar smoking twins on it anymore.? The EGR parts are still bolted to the head but the vacuum lines are all disconnected and the sensor connector's been resistor'd which helped immensely but didn't solve it. ? I'm wondering if all the crap which included both oil and coolant that was getting past the bad turbo's shaft seal into both the intake and the exhaust has just clogged up the EGR system and coated and upset its' temp sensor.? I've put close to 7k miles on it since the fubar factory turbos were replaced and it doesn't smoke at all anymore so I'm not sure... ? I'm not having any issues with the manu button and?indicator other than once the three codes are tripped including the 89, the manu and trac off buttons don't change the state of their indicator lamps 'till the codes decide to clear or I reset the ecu. Thomas --- On Sun, 9/13/09, John Cribb wrote: From: John Cribb Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth??? To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 8:43 AM Thomas, I didn't have the MIL from the EGR (71) until after I put the EGR bypass plate in, and then it only occurred infrequently, in hot weather, and only when cruising between 30 & 50 MPH. I've disabled the rest of the EGR, put the resistor in, replaced the resistor twice, cut the harness and soldered the resistor in, etc. but no joy. The other problems that you're describing, (TRAC Off, Manu, Cruise) I had when I first purchased my car, but they all were sorted when I resoldered all the points in my instrument cluster. My '94 is now owned & driven by my son, but it's still tripping the 71 MIL occasionally, so I'm still keen to find a solution. John '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Thomas Bradley wrote: > From: Thomas Bradley > Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days...? wth??? > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 5:17 AM > Hey John, > Sounds like your 94TT auto had the same issue I've got with > this 93TT auto (Code 71) and that you did the same things to > try and solve it, which helped some but didn't solve it... > ? > Anyone have any insight into what we're missing?about this > issue? > ? > Already did that tech tip (both sides) shortly after I > bought the car.? I'm?very familiar with it.? > It didn't solve the problems, just made them apparent as > most of the warning lamps in the left and right > warning?pods and instrument cluster itself?didn't work > when I bought the car...? no suprise there with 120k miles > on a bone stock TT Supra... > ? > The odo resolder fixed the cruise completely and helped the > code 42 go from constant to only showing up?when the other > 2 codes show up, 42, 71, 89, all simultaneously. > ? > w.t.h... > ? > Thomas > ? > --- On Sun, 9/13/09, John Cribb > wrote: > > From: John Cribb > Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on > hot days... wth??? > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 12:57 AM > > Thomas you might still have a cold solder joint problem in > the instrument cluster. If I were you, I would resolder all > the joints in the cluster, not just the odo pod. http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/trac_off_mil_odo/index.html > > Also I'm not clear if the problems are occurring with your > '93 A/T or your '98 6spd? My '94 with A/T used to still trip > a MIL occasionally due to the EGR, and I never did find that > problem. I disconnected the EGR, put the bypass resistor in, > etc. but no joy. > > John > '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop > > > --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley > wrote: > > > From: Thomas Bradley > > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on > hot days...? wth??? > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" > > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 7:42 AM > > Hi all, > > Sorry for the length in advance! > > ? > > I could really use some?help from the MkIV tech > guru's > > around here, please.? :) > > ? > > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I > bought > > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot > but I > > can't seem to solve it completely.. > > ? > > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I > can't > > find much info on?code 71 or 89. > > ? > > I've done a few things and now it only happens on > really > > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50 > miles > > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on, > but?it > > happens without the a/c too?and I don't know what > else to > > do to try and solve it... > > ? > > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!? all > three > > simultaneously every time... > > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a > week, > > especially?in mid summer. > > ? > > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to > make > > any difference. > > ? > > I'll be driving along?for a while then all of a > sudden > > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing, > followed by > > C.E.L. all within about a second.? > > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or > > parking the car for a while?doesn't make any > difference.? > > > > They come back on with the key?and stick around a > while. > > If I keep driving for a while longer they will > eventually > > all go out one by one within a second of each other > again > > and stay gone for a long while.? It's rare to see > them come > > and go twice on the same drive. ? > > ? > > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them > temporarily > > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not?if > they > > were active when the fuse was removed. > > ? > > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot > but > > didn't solve it... > > This?trio of codes and lights used to happen almost > > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor > plug?is > > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in > the > > harness connector and the vacuum lines were > re-routed/capped > > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but > didn't > > solve it completely.? We don't have smog or emissions > tests > > here so EGR isn't critical for this car. > > ? > > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot, > and > > may be unrelated.... > > When I got the car, even when the other lights > weren't > > on?the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and > the > > cruise rarely worked?so I resoldered the odometer > circuit > > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those > two > > problems went from constant to gone. > > ? > > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't > find any > > info on it other than "Trac ECU". > > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy > days...?? :) > > > > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having > to > > look at the trac light all the time?but I can't?seem > to > > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are > different > > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just > press > > the trac off button when I want to play... > > ? > > iirc: > > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal > > Code 71 EGR Malfunction > > Code 89 TRAC ECU > > > > These are not random old codes from > different/old/unrelated > > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from > none > > stored to all three together every time this happens. > > > ? > > The cruise still works even?while these codes and > lights > > are actively showing up. > > ? > > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot > days > > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely > to > > trigger it. > > ? > > I don't get what these three things have in common. > > ? > > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated... > > ? > > Thanks in advance! > > ? > > > > Thomas > > myothersupra > > -------------- > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV > > 93TT Auto MkIV > > 92T Auto MkIII > > 88 5-Speed MkIII > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type > > 81 5-Speed MkI > > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mkiv mailing list > > Mkiv@mkiv.com > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mkiv mailing list > Mkiv@mkiv.com > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv > _______________________________________________ Mkiv mailing list Mkiv@mkiv.com http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv