[mkiv] Garage Advanced T-78 Installed Dyno Numbers
Derek Wang
mkiv@mkiv.com
Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:08:23 -0800
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Reason I ask is with BPU even running race gas, RWHP drops significantly
pull after pull w/o an ECU reset. Something like 430, 415, 400, 390,
390, 390.... Obviously this is due to timing retard. Upon an ecu
reset, goes right back to around the first figure. This of course is
impractical for real driving and probably damaging since the first pulls
are getting too much timing per the stock ECU mappings.
I would suspect that with a T78 or any other single, there would also be
some "sweet spot" once A/F is proper where timing also is consistent,
giving around the same RWHP run after run, and in real life, pull after
pull on the street or at the track given the same octane gas and boost.
My setup with race gas, it's pretty much around the 640-650 range and
~1.8 bar of boost. Never tried on pump so I'm wondering if 500rwhp with
1.2 bar is near optimal with the stock ECU based car.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: mkiv-admin@mkiv.com [mailto:mkiv-admin@mkiv.com] On Behalf Of
Grant Beaty
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 12:24 PM
To: mkiv@mkiv.com
Subject: Re: [mkiv] Garage Advanced T-78 Installed Dyno Numbers
>If you didn't reset the ECU, was power output consistent pull after
pull?
I know your not asking me, but it is consistant for me.
Talking in terms of trap speeds (a better real-world measurement) I only
see improvements in reseting the ECU if I had previously run the car in
a sub-standard state of tune. If timing was pulled previously, the traps
will improve, since it takes a little while for the ECU to add timing
back. If I make no changes, I've never seen a difference from runt to
run w/o reseting the ECU, in the 1/4 mile.
When I was at Angels I too made 18 pulls, same pathetic HP each time.
Grant
----- Original Message -----
From: Derek <mailto:derektwang@hotmail.com> Wang
To: mkiv@mkiv.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: [mkiv] Garage Advanced T-78 Installed Dyno Numbers
Good info.
When you were making the 18 runs, did you reset the ECU between each
run? Or only when you switched gas?
If you didn't reset the ECU, was power output consistent pull after
pull?
Thanks,
Derek Wang
-----Original Message-----
From: mkiv-admin@mkiv.com [mailto:mkiv-admin@mkiv.com] On Behalf Of
Barnes, Joshua
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:13 AM
To: 'mkiv@mkiv.com'
Subject: [mkiv] Garage Advanced T-78 Installed Dyno Numbers
Garage Advanced T-78 Installed Dyno Numbers
Summary:
High-Boost at 1.7 Kg/Cm2 | 93/114 Octane Mix: Corrected 608 RWHP & 544
RWTQ / Actual 628 RWHP & 561 RWTQ
Low-Boost at 1.2 Kg/Cm2 | Straight 93 Octane: Corrected 501RWHP & 455
RWTQ / Actual 511 RWHP & 465 RWTQ
Detail:
Angel made 18 back-to-back pulls while dynoing. There was approximately
10 to 15 minutes cool down time between pulls; no icing of any
components was done. Outside temperature rose from a low of 69F to a
high of 72F during the dyno session and there was the typical dyno fan
that was providing some additional airflow to the IC. My setup is as
follows:
Greddy T-78 Turbo kit, stock cams with HKS cam gears, Garage Advance
fuel system with 850cc injectors and dual Walbro pumps, VPC with "B"
chip, S-AFC, Gforce ECU, Profec B boost controller, FJO Wideband O2,
Blitz down-pipe, Apex GT Spec cat back exhaust, K&N air filter, dual HKS
SSBov's, Titan electric fans, Fidanza light weight flywheel, and an RPS
Stage 3 sprung hub clutch.
The first pull netted just over 450 RWHP with a pig rich AFR and the
typical cam gear settings of -4/+1 exhaust/intake. Angel made numerous
pulls at the minimum boost the Profec B can hold, 1.1 Kg/Cm2 and
straight 93-octane pump gas to tune the cam gears. We set the boost to
1.2 Kg/Cm2, which is my everyday boost setting and put down the low
boost numbers above. With only 0.10 more boost, THIS NETTED 50 RWHP
just from Angel's tuning! Next Angle started the high boost tuning. As
he expected, the Profec B would not allow us to run the boost we were
hoping for. The most we could get was 1.7 Kg/Cm2. We were going to go
as high as 2.0-2.2 Kg/Cm2. So at 1.7 Kg/Cm2 it put down 608 corrected
to the wheels. In the near future I will be switching to a new boost
controller and HKS 272/272 cams to see how much more the T-78 will put
down with my setup.
Angel did a GREAT job of tuning, I could not be happier (well, unless I
would have gone with the GA74 kit, then maybe I would be just a bit
happier ;)
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D019470019-18122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 =
size=3D2>Reason=20
I ask is with BPU even running race gas, RWHP drops significantly pull =
after=20
pull w/o an ECU reset. Something like 430, 415, 400, 390, 390,=20
390.... Obviously this is due to timing retard. Upon an ecu =
reset,=20
goes right back to around the first figure. This of course is =
impractical=20
for real driving and probably damaging since the first pulls are getting =
too=20
much timing per the stock ECU mappings.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D019470019-18122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D019470019-18122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 =
size=3D2>I=20
would suspect that with a T78 or any other single, there would also be =
some=20
"sweet spot" once A/F is proper where timing also is consistent, giving =
around=20
the same RWHP run after run, and in real life, pull after pull on the =
street or=20
at the track given the same octane gas and boost. My setup with =
race gas,=20
it's pretty much around the 640-650 range and ~1.8 bar of boost. =
Never=20
tried on pump so I'm wondering if 500rwhp with 1.2 bar is near optimal =
with the=20
stock ECU based car.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D019470019-18122002>Derek</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
mkiv-admin@mkiv.com [mailto:mkiv-admin@mkiv.com] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Grant=20
Beaty<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 18, 2002 12:24 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
mkiv@mkiv.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [mkiv] Garage Advanced T-78 =
Installed=20
Dyno Numbers<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>><SPAN =
class=3D638301517-18122002><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2>If you didn't reset the ECU, was =
power output=20
consistent pull after pull?</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D638301517-18122002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D638301517-18122002>I=20
know your not asking me, but it is consistant for =
me.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D638301517-18122002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D638301517-18122002>Talking in terms of trap speeds (a better =
real-world=20
measurement) I only see improvements in reseting the ECU if I had =
previously=20
run the car in a sub-standard state of tune. If timing was pulled =
previously,=20
the traps will improve, since it takes a little while for the ECU to =
add=20
timing back. If I make no changes, I've never seen a difference from =
runt to=20
run w/o reseting the ECU, in the 1/4 mile.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D638301517-18122002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D638301517-18122002>When=20
I was at Angels I too made 18 pulls, same pathetic HP each=20
time.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D638301517-18122002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D638301517-18122002>Grant</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dderektwang@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:derektwang@hotmail.com">Derek=20
Wang</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dmkiv@mkiv.com=20
href=3D"mailto:mkiv@mkiv.com">mkiv@mkiv.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 18, =
2002 9:16=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [mkiv] Garage =
Advanced=20
T-78 Installed Dyno Numbers</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D638301517-18122002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000080=20
size=3D2>Good info.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D638301517-18122002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000080=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D638301517-18122002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000080=20
size=3D2>When you were making the 18 runs, did you reset the =
ECU between=20
each run? Or only when you switched gas?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D638301517-18122002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000080=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D638301517-18122002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000080 size=3D2>If=20
you didn't reset the ECU, was power output consistent pull after=20
pull?</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080=20
size=3D2>Thanks,<B></B></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><B><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000080 =
size=3D2>Derek=20
Wang</FONT></B></SPAN> <BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:mkiv-admin@mkiv.com">mkiv-admin@mkiv.com</A>=20
[mailto:mkiv-admin@mkiv.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Barnes,=20
Joshua<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:13 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
'mkiv@mkiv.com'<BR><B>Subject:</B> [mkiv] Garage Advanced T-78 =
Installed=20
Dyno Numbers<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Garage Advanced T-78 =
Installed Dyno=20
Numbers</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
black">Summary:</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">High-Boost at 1.7 Kg/Cm2 | =
93/114=20
Octane Mix: Corrected 608 RWHP & 544 RWTQ / Actual 628 RWHP =
& 561=20
RWTQ</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Low-Boost at 1.2 Kg/Cm2 | =
Straight=20
93 Octane: Corrected 501RWHP & 455 RWTQ / Actual 511 RWHP =
& 465=20
RWTQ</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Detail:</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Angel made 18 back-to-back =
pulls=20
while dynoing.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>There was=20
approximately 10 to 15 minutes cool down time between pulls; no =
icing of=20
any components was done.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =20
</SPAN>Outside temperature rose from a low of 69F to a high of 72F =
during=20
the dyno session and there was the typical dyno fan that was =
providing=20
some additional airflow to the IC.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>My setup is as follows:</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Greddy T-78 Turbo kit, =
stock cams=20
with HKS cam gears, Garage Advance fuel system with 850cc =
injectors and=20
dual Walbro pumps, VPC with “B” chip, S-AFC, Gforce =
ECU, Profec B boost=20
controller, FJO Wideband O2, Blitz down-pipe, Apex GT Spec cat =
back=20
exhaust, K&N air filter, dual HKS SSBov’s, Titan =
electric fans,=20
Fidanza light weight flywheel, and an RPS Stage 3 sprung hub=20
clutch.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">The first pull netted just =
over 450=20
RWHP with a pig rich AFR and the typical cam gear settings of =
-4/+1=20
exhaust/intake.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>Angel made=20
numerous pulls at the minimum boost the Profec B can hold, 1.1 =
Kg/Cm2 and=20
straight 93-octane pump gas to tune the cam gears.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We set the boost to 1.2 =
Kg/Cm2,=20
which is my everyday boost setting and put down the low boost =
numbers=20
above.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>With only =
0.10 more=20
boost, THIS NETTED 50 RWHP just from Angel’s tuning!<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Next Angle started the =
high boost=20
tuning.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>As he =
expected, the=20
Profec B would not allow us to run the boost we were hoping =
for.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The most we could get =
was 1.7=20
Kg/Cm2.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We were =
going to go=20
as high as 2.0-2.2 Kg/Cm2.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>So=20
at 1.7 Kg/Cm2 it put down 608 corrected to the wheels.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>In the near future I =
will be=20
switching to a new boost controller and HKS 272/272 cams to see =
how much=20
more the T-78 will put down with my setup.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Angel did a GREAT job of =
tuning, I=20
could not be happier (well, unless I would have gone with the GA74 =
kit,=20
then maybe I would be just a bit happier ;)</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
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